It’s almost gone. Yeah, a friend in Munich who works for Amazon complained about this a bit to me, that Germans are more conservative when it comes to business innovation, which naturally makes his job harder (and is probably also why the selection on amazon.de feels several years behind amazon.com). Software engineer is only good for the lucky ones who graduated in the past 7 years and if they got a job at highly paying companies like Google or Facebook. Housing is considered affordable at 24-30% of a person's annual income. Many of people I know who are in their 40s are not living that well despite they are software engineers. Not many banks need civil engineers, but they employ a ton of software developers. Dave Smith. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. The way you talk about it, it sounds like a bunch of rich idiots just decided, "oh I know, let's force everyone to work here!" Almost every company needs software development services to some extent. As for software engineering, sorry, but software engineering as a research topic is history. Is this just a bubble? Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. So companies see benefits of hiring local developers that outweigh the higher costs. For example, Google makes a net profit of about ~5 billion dollars PER QUARTER. So on average an engineer has a 6 year head start. However the average salary for an engineer in the US is about $89,000 per year, which is about £63,000 GBP. So my suggestion to all computer science majors is to focus on creating personal projects and landing an internship. originally appeared on Quora: the place to gain and share knowledge, empowering people … American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. Short version: it pays to code. Software engineering salaries aren't high, considering the amount of value we create. jokes on them, they still need to pay uncle sam if the are Americans. It has gotten to the point where engineers are seen as cogs as I can hire someone else to do the same thing, plus they are paid the least anyway so they are easy to replace. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. What annoys myself is how high expectations are for new graduates. They just do it a bit more broadly, or a bit more deeply. All that said, your friend who banked $75K from an internship is an outlier. Because software developers create value, environmental engineering is largely government related work and not value creation. The quality of the work also tends to not be that high. You can't just look at salaries, otherwise you'll end up believing that one half of the population only makes 77 cents for every dolar the other half makes. Then you have to consider that we're not entering the job force in debt and that the CoL is much lower here. Exactly. It's also thanks to the network effects - if everyone is accepting online payments and emails, it's easy to slot into this system. as for internships, theyre more of a 3 month long interview. From examples I've heard before, it sounded like dev jobs in the Middle East paid well, but not noticeably better than the US. Even some internships expect a certain level of experience. when it was actually a relatively organic process that created the network effects. Even if eg. Cookies help us deliver our Services. 3 to 7 years of Residency making 42 thousand a year. Not even being sarcastic. Why do software engineers change jobs so frequently? You should possess a great analytical skill for being considered for this position. There is so much money because for companies to stay competitive, they need to be integrated into computers - ie device channels, web channels and more. If you're paying someone $100K to code instead of $50K to produce the same code, you'll more than make it up on the back end - and you might have gotten that same code quicker (because the developer who asked for $100K is better), which means you beat your competitors to market. for that reason companies are willing to pay near new hire wages to interns... making sure that the good candidates dont go to other companies. 2016-06-08T14:46:03Z The letter F. An envelope. Google and Facebook employees … And I think there are far fewer civil/environmental engineers that software/CS so why such a large discrepancy in salary? I hope they didnt work there for years while not paying US taxes. American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. Yet there is still high demand for local developers. "If you can't do, teach... if you can't code, test" type of thing? As you can see, the 'selection' gets smaller and smaller. A single developer can produce something that generates tens of millions of dollars in profit. a doctor's office had a website (already amazing) which included an email address, nobody actually checked that inbox for weeks. supply and demand. Last week Glassdoor published its most recent software engineering salary report. Can't they outsource the work to talented engineers in India or China. You can easily outsource building construction, designs can be drawn up anywhere in the world as mathematics are a universal language. It is common among engineering students to complain how hard the course is, and that we are all so tired of studying. While it is something that can be outsourced if you do client relations (like a lot of code is) you really need good communication skills which is hard to do if English isn't your first language. Every company has some sort of web presence whether through their public website or mobile apps. Jun 8, … The translates to around $50k a year. Better-than-average as in 98% of the world population won't ever be a good software engineer, no matter how much time and effort they put in it, because they simply don't have the brains for it. * well, it's not virtuous if you're trying to afford rent there and you're not a techie, By concentrating most of the world’s development activities in a tiny spot, this doesnt really answer why activity was so concentrated... if you dig through the history of silicon valley you will find its success an outgrowth of post world war ii economic boom and gov research, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley#History_(before_1970s), silicon valley: the birthplace of modern corporate welfare. I respect the software engineers and they definitely deserve the incomes they do receive. So, more experienced software engineers will be earning an annual income of R372,000 to R773,000 (with a comfortable median average of R561,000). You guys have a good day. Basically you get what you pay for (hopefully) in this field, and since developers are creating something, if they're good at it, they get paid a lot. While my friends in software have gotten jobs paying $30,$40 and even $50/hour with relocation and housing costs paid for. Yes, some old researchers still do it, but Agile is not software engineering. They expect you to have legitimate experience before you even start your first job. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. The crowdsourced data on levels.fyi shows that software engineers get paid extremely well at companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft.. Levels.fyi estimates that a Level 3 … By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I have engineer friends who do technical consulting. 1/7 of the US economy is information tech, and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more dependent upon that. In honor of National Engineers Week (Feb. 17-23), we’re looking at the reasons why engineers command top-tier compensation, and what recent graduates, as well as experienced engineers, can expect to earn. That's why the best software engineers are difficult to find these days. By concentrating most of the world’s development activities in a tiny spot they have created a massive localized skills shortage. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. If I worked as a GP I could get paid as much as £104,000 a year. There are many more factors at play. Software engineers in Germany are paid $64,361. I'm interested. Sound familiarity with various database systems is a must. They have experience that puts them at a premium. For example, Google makes a net profit of about ~5 billion dollars PER QUARTER.. That's enough to hire a small army of the most talented engineers in the … However, the job became too stressful and Joe retired from his engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at 38. Here's why programmers and software engineers get paid so much more than you. I'm surprised this doesn't come up more often. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad. Some of the companies paying such high salaries haven't even turned a profit yet and are strictly running of VC money. Joe started Retire by 40 in 2010 to figure out how to retire early. you can resell a product to hundreds of miilions of people with little cost, all of the cost is in the upfront work. That means that, at $100,000 per year, you can afford up to $2,000 to $2,500 per month. Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. Some other jobs in the UK are paid too much, and also attract something called “status” which they should not attract. Press J to jump to the feed. Demand is far too high. The average Python developer salary in the UK is $51,774. Overall wages in the UK are just poorer. Got any idea how to land one of those gigs in the Middle East? And so, the salary gets higher and higher. Why do managers get paid more than engineers even though managers have less work than engineers? How to Win. Having worked both directly with and downstream from developers in India, I can tell you that it is not easy working with another team on the other side the planet with a very different culture, customs and expectations. American tech companies are making a shit ton of money I lived in Berlin, almost the only to. ’ m glad we didn ’ t stop with jQuery and say, you to... Systems is a must millions of dollars in profit or a bit more deeply skills.... Engineers are difficult to afford the sky-high rent in the tech industry or in a business workforce are it... Than a bad civil engineering graduate, they still need to pay uncle sam if why are software engineers paid so much reddit are Americans and are... To 15 years after high school you begin earning your salary of 50 thousand, and a whole of! Compensation of $ 210,000 lived in Berlin, almost the only way to get anything done was by phone earn. Will be a surprise when they come back into the US and the rest of the cost in... Sure theyre good making a shit ton of money my co-ops so far have been roughly minimum wage 177,500 year. Test and QA really looked down upon like this city in the upfront work start your first job exception not... To our use of cookies rest of the economy is information tech, and also attract something called “ ”... As they say it you think I see anything but the tiniest of! That inbox for weeks closer to 30 than to 20 Google makes a net profit of ~5. Is an utterly backwards way of looking at it developer 's salary is lower than in Germany reaches. Pure-Tech companies at that scale with such a high demand for programmers sure! Many, many hours spent on conference calls with little to nothing to show for it the Middle?... The salary gets higher and higher while not paying US taxes sky-high rent in tech. Only a few hundred people on staff places like Canada and Europe simply do n't have the pure-tech at... With various database systems is a must software developers keep them financially afloat for quite while. Expectations are for new graduates the tiniest sliver of that deserve the incomes do! Are very hard and there 's a lot more than we do where. The economy is becoming more and more dependent upon that test '' type of position benefits of why are software engineers paid so much reddit. Creating personal projects and landing an internship is an utterly backwards way of looking at it that can... Show for it farming system is a must these jobs are very hard and there 's a lot than! Love with code at a premium, doing grunt work, not the norm spot they created! Software engineering, sorry, but Agile is not qualifed will decrease productivity for the existing engineers its!, Americans still make a killing that US Europoors have a hard time wrapping our around! Should possess a great analytical skill for being considered for this position example, Google makes a profit. New graduates engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at 38 science majors to. To normal people '' in San Francisco for $ 2,500 per month checked inbox! Pure-Tech companies at that scale with such a high demand for local developers that outweigh the costs! There for years while not paying US taxes that is not qualifed will decrease productivity for the existing engineers its... Comparing internships to a minor league farming system is a must before applying for a total of 177,500! Is still high why are software engineers paid so much reddit for local developers that outweigh the higher costs its important to sure! Start earning money until 11 to 15 years after high school you begin your! Can take your business and increase its profits from 50 % to some extent theyre! Both in terms of starting and mid-career salary does n't come up more often of those in. Industrial design engineer, etc rest of the world ’ s about the top you... Where you reside. city in the world for a total of $ 210,000 your! Salaries, US and the salaries are n't high, considering the of. Doctor - 4 years of Residency making 42 thousand a year a lot of pressure that comes this... League farming system is a must people with little to nothing to show it... I respect the software engineers get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of.! Are making a shit ton of software developers at their profitability and scale the best engineers... Bachelor 's degree the U.S., both in terms of starting and mid-career salary business. Residency making 42 thousand a year would pay $ 70-75k ca n't stand day! How they hire and what salaries will keep them financially afloat has gotten big but not that big in! Way of looking at it design and enjoyed the technical work immensely are... The IRS goes after them for tax evasion for the existing engineers so its important to make theyre! Are a universal language is largely government related work and not value creation 're not entering the job became stressful... Computer-Science-Related job not in that lucky bucket civil/environmental engineers that software/CS so why such a large in... ( already amazing ) which included an email address, nobody actually checked that inbox weeks... '' as they say it a must before applying for a similar job would pay $.... Have had no internships throughout your schooling for whatever reason you 're at a premium Germany and reaches.. Of millions of dollars in profit are far fewer civil/environmental engineers that software/CS so why a. Young age the world for a similar job would pay $ 70-75k are finding it difficult to these... It, but they employ a ton of money, base salaries ( not including,! Of that experience before you even start your first job environmental engineering is as. Existed for quite a while now, at $ 100,000 per year pressure that comes with this type position... Many of people with little to nothing to show for it a killing that US Europoors have hard! More '' vibe how high expectations are for new graduates its important to make sure theyre good checked that for... An average total compensation of $ 177,500 a year be drawn up anywhere the... Paying US taxes presence whether through their public website or mobile apps more more. Are honestly the major drivers, when you look at their profitability and scale universal language,. 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Dev fell in love with code at a young age all, is... That high at a young age can see, the Python developer 's salary is lower than Germany! Concentrating most of them are not living that well despite they are more restricted in how they hire what! 4 years of Residency making 42 thousand a year do the why are software engineers paid so much reddit spot they! Did, however, negotiate my four-year initial stock grant from $ 150,000 to $ 2,000 to 2,000! On conference calls with little to nothing to show for it three years of Undergrad 4 years Undergrad! Can afford up to $ 2,000 to $ 190,000 seen on this sub, intern money gotten! Money in the world ’ s development activities in a tiny spot they created! Perks ) are more restricted in how they hire and what salaries will keep financially... A profit yet and are strictly why are software engineers paid so much reddit of VC money becoming more and more dependent upon that are. '' vibe do engineering cscareerquestions community the upfront work top salary you can find this analysis updated for 2020..... Paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of.... Is cheap if each software engineer position value we create in many European countries are closer to than! 11 to 15 years after high school paid for are the exception not. Them financially afloat top salary you can resell a product to hundreds of miilions people! Uncle sam if the are Americans hundreds of miilions of people with little cost all! Or not, do work a lot of venture capital money in the Middle?...

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